Some of the old maps just aren't as good as they should be. I'm thinking of replacing every Zorchmatch map except ZM03 (Mario Zorchmatch), ZM07 (Highlands), and possibly ZM05 (the quarry).
I would need to replace four maps; so far I've made four layouts, though one of them is too small for deathmatch/zorchmatch.
The maps I'm going to replace are
ZM01 -- "IFOC Underground Hangar"
Not awful, but I can do better.
(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq189/Jwaffe/th_Screenshot_Chex_20110729_020337.png)
ZM02 -- "Jade Plateau"
A ripped layout with a ripped song, not really all that great in deathmatch/zorchmatch anyway. Looks pretty, but again, just not good enough.
(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq189/Jwaffe/th_Screenshot_Chex_20110505_000042.png)
ZM04 -- "Subways"
Looks nice, but I never really liked the layout
(http://s446.photobucket.com/albums/qq189/Jwaffe/?action-view¤t=Screenshot_Chex_20110514_232055.png)
ZM06 -- "Museum"
(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq189/Jwaffe/th_Screenshot_Chex_20110610_005456.png)
The outside area is almost never used, which isn't a good thing since that's probably the best combat area of the entire map.
For right now, these maps are made for Doom 2; this is only so that I can get more players, which is important since I want these maps to be able to support a lot of players. Most of them are also untextured layouts.
they will all eventually be re-textured and re-balanced for Chex Pack ; this map pack will be released for both Doom 2 and Chex Pack.
You can always get the latest release of FastDM (temporary name for these DM/ZM levels) at http://www.ifocserv.net/ftp/fastdm/.
You can also get some rejected (sometimes silly) concepts at http://www.ifocserv.net/ftp/fastdm/removed/
Hmm... I'd say I support this decision. Personally, I think a subway map based more on the tunnels rather than the station might be interesting (like, a maze - well not really a maze, as that would be confusing - of subway tunnels to fight in)
I'm up to five zorchmatch layouts (and one layout that's too small for ZM-- Duel map, possibly)
Aw, had a soft spot for Jade Plateau myself since I have a love/hate relationship with Blast Corps. ZM01 and ZM06 were decent too. Then again, I really never play much Zorchmatch (or Deathmatch) since I'm absolutely awful at it, so I guess their removal wouldn't really affect me much. Nonetheless, is there at least some kind of pack that includes removed maps from Chex Pack, or plans for one?
I was thinking of that. There are quite a few maps that got removed from Chex Pack over the years, I could make a single pack that had all of them, though the problem is that it wouldn't really be that easy to release, since not only the maps changed, but the weapons, enemy behavior, and editor numbers as well.
Probably the best possibility would be to just remove all content that doesn't exist anymore, (possibly even switch it to just using the stock chex 3 textures/actors/sprites), then release it as is.
EDIT - this is too much work; time I could be spending making better maps or converting Lucius' maps to Zandronum
I would release each map separately as a separate WAD, as it is, and if anyone wants to mess with them then they can go and fix things, possibly upload a fixed version if they want. You know, just so people can see them if they want. I wouldn't do this with all the maps, but some of the more played on ones. Jade Plateau, Underground Hangar, the small CTF crate map, etc. Just my two cents.[size=78%] [/size]
I'm up to 10 maps now. I feel comfortable with 8 of them; two of them should probably be replaced
EDIT - also, an as-is release of the Chex Pack maps would result in a set of maps that have a lot of missing textures and actors
Hence, why I said let someone else fix them if they want. If no one wants to, then its not worth it to fix a map up in the first place. So, release the broken ones, and if someone actually wants to play on it, they can take a look at it themselves. Less work on your part, and a lot more efficient.
If the outside area of the museum was the best part, would a zorchmatch map of just that area be a good idea?
Now up to 14 maps; I'm thinking of making 32.
Better yet, 42
Update: Now up to 24 maps
Nice! Is the server using them yet?
No permanent server is, but I frequently host temp testing servers. The layouts aren't all ready to be hosted 24/7, but I'm confident with most of them.
If you're interested in joining these testing servers, contact me on steam ([IFOC]75), and I'll tell you when I'm hosting them.
Keep in mind that for right now, you will need doom2.wad to play them. I'm currently testing the maps in Doom 2 so I can get more players, but I will re-texture and rebalance the weapons for Chex Pack usage after I am 100% certain that the maps are ready, based on Doom testing.
You can always get the latest release of FastDM (temporary name for these DM/ZM levels) at http://www.ifocserv.net/ftp/fastdm/.
You can also get some rejected (sometimes silly) concepts at http://www.ifocserv.net/ftp/fastdm/removed/
I made a quick review of all of the maps in the wad; I now have 28 maps (MAP01-MAP26 and MAP31 and MAP32)
http://www.ifocserv.net/ftp/fastdm/Status_07192013.txt
I now have layouts for all 32 maps, I will need to test them with a lot of players, so if you are interested in joining these testing sessions, don't hesitate to contact me.
I would very much love to, but steam isn't working well for me right now. Perhaps post in the shoutbox when your testing? :/
ok, sounds good
Got some good information from tonight's testing session, I hope to have another one soon, after I fix the problems I noticed.
Some of the later maps (MAP26-8) were really fun with 4 players, but I think they will be very hectic with more than 4, so I will need to expand or remake them.
In general the maps were a lot more congested than I thought they would be, MAP04 in particular needs to be expanded; I was very surprised at how hard it was to move with even 8 players in those thin hallways near the central lift. I will definitely work on that, and other issues that came up during testing.
I took a bit of a break, but I made a lot of revisions for the next release, you can see revision 40 in the FTP now; I'm going to do more checks on it tomorrow, and I will probably host this or the next version sometime tomorrow night or the day after.
I temporarily switched to pk3 format for the maps for easy updating.
Good test today, I'm going to be making some extra maps too, in case I want to add more variety later; and plus I can just keep the best out of them.
I'm going to try to have more frequent testing servers.
[Doom detailing phase]
Detailing these in doom first gave me some good ideas. Don't worry, I do intend to release these detailed for Chex too.
Map status as of r45; feedback on the detailing would be appreciated.
I did some testing yesterday with Combinebobnt, Marcaek, Qent, and Argentvm.
I would like feedback on these maps:
NOTE that texture alignments are not done, I'm looking for criticism on style mostly at this point.
Pre-r45:
MAP02
MAP06 (leave startan?)
MAP19 (GreenWar tribute)
MAP23
MAP29
MAP31
MAP32
r45:
MAP03
MAP04
MAP07
MAP10
MAP17
MAP18
MAP20
Not ready for feedback (Startan):
MAP05
MAP09
MAP11
MAP12
MAP13
MAP14
MAP15
MAP16
MAP21
Not Startan, but details need improvement. If you have time, feedback would be nice but these are nowhere near final and typically rather plain still.
MAP01
MAP08
MAP24
MAP25
MAP26
MAP27
MAP28
MAP22
MAP30
MAP33
Bump.
I have a somewhat complete chexified version of MAP01, (FZM01)
http://imgur.com/a/Dpqcm
(http://i.imgur.com/jU8v7xOl.png) (http://imgur.com/jU8v7xO)
you can try it out using this pk3
http://www.ifocserv.net/ftp/chexpack/ChexPack_06292014_1222.pk3
I have a server up, <[IFOC] Server> Testing, but it's really more for convenience than anything, it's just the one map on there
EDIT: server's down.
For those of you who have played fastdm, the weapon placement is significantly different in this version, hopefully it will be a new and interesting take on the old layout.
MAP02 is coming together, I've made quite a few layout changes from the fastdm version (I got tired of MAP02 and tried to address some of the issues I've noticed during testing)
Screenshots
[spoiler](http://i.imgur.com/ehODPNbl.png) (http://imgur.com/ehODPNb)
(http://i.imgur.com/KU7QXu7l.png) (http://imgur.com/KU7QXu7)[/spoiler]
What's going to be the fate of the original seven Zorchmatch maps? I know you're planning on taking most of them out entirely, but are you planning on hosting a zorchmatch server with both the FZM and remaining ZM maps in the rotation?
Also are you done with FZM01? The detailing seems kind of generic right now.
I think I'll keep all of the current ZM maps except the museum (which will be ZMSEC)
Eventually I think I'll just rename FZM to ZM and put all the ZM maps in the same rotation. I might possibly bring back a patched version of LMS01 from the old P14 beta too.
Not sure what you mean by generic on the detailing for FZM01, can you go into more detail on that?
And weren't you changing the subway level into a duel map?
Hmm. Looking over it again, I'm not entirely sure what specifically made me say "generic". I think it's just that I'm not a big fan of the tech base theme that the map seems to have. The COMP2 texture in particular bothers me when it's tiled like that, because it looks like it's displaying specific information and it doesn't make a lot of sense to have the same informational display repeated and repeated. (That texture also bothered me DUEL11, but I got used to it). Other than that, I don't think it's worth worrying about; converting more maps is a better use of time that messing with the detailing.
As for LMS01, I vote yes on bringing it back. I was actually messing around with P14 a few days ago and felt a bit disappointed that I never got a chance to play on it.
Hello there I would like to make some zorchmatch maps.
I was just thinking about this again, heh
Okay, sounds good.
Go ahead and draw some maps, when you get something you'd like to show me post them in this topic and I'll take a look
Ooh, 75, I wanted to make a sort of Hydroponics Facility or Landing Zone type of zorchmatch, if this is a good time to ask, may I also make a zorchmatch map? It's much easier, because I don't have to focus on things like how easy it is to find the blue key or red key, etc.
So, may I make a zorchmatch map too?
I have an idea for the map it will be called the Chexagon it will be shaped like a pentagon with different floors.
Different floors, that's tricky, I tried it, and it was really hard. You need to know how to make 3D floors to make a multiple-floor building.
Also, 75, didn't you not want 3D floors? Or I guess you can use the pseudo-3D floor trick.
Or wait, don't they have 3D floors in software now? Actually wait. I think that was just ZDoom and Zandronum is behind so no.
You could just use GZDooMBuilder and Zand's OpenGL mode to use 3D floors. Unless they work in software, 'cause that would be friggin' awesome!
Well, if they don't work in software, you wouldn't want to put them in the map because then people who don't want to/can't run OpenGL will be at a disadvantage on the map.
Quote from: noob1234 on February 02, 2015, 07:26:02 AM
Also, 75, didn't you not want 3D floors? Or I guess you can use the pseudo-3D floor trick.
Or wait, don't they have 3D floors in software now? Actually wait. I think that was just ZDoom and Zandronum is behind so no.
Actually one of the things to get backported almost immediately to Zand was software 3d floors, they've been in actually since zand 1.0 (great work devs!).
So feel free to use 3d floors, the only thing you CAN'T do is SLOPED 3d Floors, please don't use those!
Also don't use a TON of 3d floors, please test your maps in software, if they lag on my core i7/8GB of Ram laptop I won't really be able to take them
Quote from: Awesomedude249 on February 01, 2015, 11:36:53 PM
So, may I make a zorchmatch map too?
Yeah, I'd like to see what you guys come up with.
If you guys want a 3d floor tutorial I wrote this thing back when painwheels and chexasaurs roamed the CQFF:
http://www.chexquest.org/index.php?topic=2740.0
[spoiler](http://www.chexquest.org/avatars/Musicians/Bob_Marley.jpg)[/spoiler]
EDIT: one last thing and this is really important, please focus on LAYOUTS first, don't worry about making it pretty, you can leave it all STARTAN2 if you want.
Making ZM/DM maps is easier for me than making singleplayer maps, but keep in mind that if you've never done it before, I strongly recommend focusing on making something that you think will be fun to fight in, not making it pretty.
It's better to use pseudo-3D-floors where you can in replace of actual 3D-floors though, since they're a lot less resource intensive. Look up Upper and Lower Portals on the zDoom wiki. The only limitation is you can't shoot through them, so you can only use them in areas where people wouldn't be able to fire between floors. Or heck, if its just multiple story and no visible areas between the floors, just use teleporters to different floors instead of putting them directly on top of each other.
Quote from: ChexMaster2109 on February 02, 2015, 07:55:57 PM
It's better to use pseudo-3D-floors where you can in replace of actual 3D-floors though, since they're a lot less resource intensive. Look up Upper and Lower Portals on the zDoom wiki. The only limitation is you can't shoot through them, so you can only use them in areas where people wouldn't be able to fire between floors. Or heck, if its just multiple story and no visible areas between the floors, just use teleporters to different floors instead of putting them directly on top of each other.
Just a warning: if you use stacked sectors, it's really easy to get HOM glitches in software mode, and really hard to do complex structures, I'd recommend not bothering with transfer heights or stacked sectors and just using a reasonable amount of 3d floors instead. Transfer heights are VERY limited too and can't be translucent.
CM2109 if you want to see how hard it is to do stacked sectors look at INV01 in ChexSkulltagPackP14 (in software mode), I'll personally never use them again. On the other hand KDIZD used them to great effect.
So your try to ask us to make the blueprints for the maps.
75, I KNOW how hard they are to use, I've used them extensively :P They work the best when both the upper and lower sectors match shapes.
Another important note, It's very possible to make a great DM layout in under an hour (If you're fast with doombuilder).
If you find that your map is taking you days and days you're probably overthinking for your first DM map. Remember: Make something simple, at least for your first try.
Don't leave HOMs in the map and make sure you can move around and everything but don't fiddle around with textures / texture alignment / microdetailing / decorations / etc. for days.
It's really important to get something you can test and get a feel for because I remember my first DM maps terribly misjudged how fast Chexter moves and a lot of the layout didn't even get used.
Bots do not count as players, from my experience testing with bots is almost a waste of time, they can be good for checking item placement and spawns, but that's about it, please don't depend on them to figure out how your map will play! They don't defend areas, they don't use cover, they don't predict.
Oh, about the mapping fast, I got 1/3 of my map done in 1 hour. Right now my brother is using his computer so I can't map for ZM. My computer isn't Windows, so I use my brother's computer to map with DooM Builder 2.