Author Topic: Map ideas/suggestions/submissions  (Read 10545 times)

Offline The Green Avenger

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Re: Map ideas/suggestions/submissions
« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2011, 08:47:24 PM »
I wasn't so much referring to your interpretations of what Boingo said, so much as the fact that AG had been asking for help, and you first tried to push him to use GZDooM, then told him that making a configuration file for DooM Builder 2 was not that hard, even though he made it abundantly clear that that was not his forte.  I was pointing out that, although you suggested that it was easy, you hd done very little to actually help AG find what he needed.

That said, it's all good.  For the time being, though, Boingo is sticking with Legacy, and has requested maps to be more or less compatible with Vanilla DooM.  Legacy generally lends itself better to more basic modification, so I'm sticking with that for the time being.
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Re: Map ideas/suggestions/submissions
« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2011, 08:47:24 PM »

Offline Replica

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Re: Map ideas/suggestions/submissions
« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2011, 09:33:23 PM »
Want to know the funny thing about all this? You're all wrong. (Well, 75 got the GZDoom right....)

Actually, although I am switching to GZDooM eventually, for the time being I would like to suggest working on levels that work for regular DooM.  They can be switched over later.  Also, follow the KISS rule for now.

Boingo never said Legacy, he said Regular DooM. He also said that he is switching to GZDoom at the beginning of the topic. Since 75's specialty is GZDoom, I'm sure Boingo thrust away his map because it isn't Doom. Now for AtarianGamer, he just said he would use DB1 and that it works fully on his compy. This isn't exactly a major problem, and certainly isn't worth an argument.

That being said, I will reiterate what Boingo stated that he wants you to do for his wad. Build your map in Doom. That means if you're going to start a new map, you should do it in Doom (Probably Ultimate DooM, because it is the same thing), not legacy nor GZDoom. Now I'm sure if you were already making a map with those ports then that isn't a problem either? (Just a note, although I favor GZDoom, this isn't biased. I'm not sure if he would accept it in legacy, because it would be much harder to convert to GZDoom. (that is Hexen Format.))

*sighs* Now I really sure this isn't what Boingo wants to read the next time he enters this topic. He quit because the CQFF had irritated him a lot in the past, and now that he started it back up and we're arguing with each other, which will probably irritating him again. So please, just make maps, and stop yelling at one another.


Now I have a question, what is the KISS rule?
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Offline xbolt

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Re: Map ideas/suggestions/submissions
« Reply #32 on: February 03, 2011, 09:40:00 PM »
Now I have a question, what is the KISS rule?

Keep It Simple, Stupid. ;)

i used to be cool y'know

Offline Replica

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Re: Map ideas/suggestions/submissions
« Reply #33 on: February 03, 2011, 09:55:32 PM »
Now I have a question, what is the KISS rule?

Keep It Simple, Stupid. ;)

Thanks... I guess. :'( *Sniffs*
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Offline ChexCommander

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Re: Map ideas/suggestions/submissions
« Reply #34 on: February 03, 2011, 09:56:30 PM »
Now I have a question, what is the KISS rule?

Keep It Simple, Stupid. ;)

Yep, and Replica, you're right, if all the maps are done in plain ol' DooM we wouldn't have to argue about all this engine mess, AND we're following the KISS rule. XD
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Offline 75

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Re: Map ideas/suggestions/submissions
« Reply #35 on: February 03, 2011, 10:30:51 PM »
AG had been asking for help, and you first tried to push him to use GZDooM, then told him that making a configuration file for DooM Builder 2 was not that hard, even though he made it abundantly clear that that was not his forte.  I was pointing out that, although you suggested that it was easy, you hd done very little to actually help AG find what he needed.

I only vaguely remember a TUCQ configuration, I don't remember where I saw it. If I remembered, I would have told him.

I'm pretty good at making doombuilder configs, so when Atari asked me if he could use a DB1 config in DB2, I looked to see if there were any differences between a DB1 config and a DB2 config, and there were quite a few, so I suggested he make his own Legacy doombuilder 2 config instead of modifying the DB1 one.

I honestly did everything I could think of to help him out except show him how to make it, it's not like I just shoved GzDoom on him.

Since 75's specialty is GZDoom, I'm sure Boingo thrust away his map because it isn't Doom.

not true. He didn't tell me to switch to legacy when I showed it to him. He just told me to wait a bit.

Quote
Now for AtarianGamer, he just said he would use DB1 and that it works fully on his compy. This isn't exactly a major problem, and certainly isn't worth an argument.

I agree... There's no point in discussing it if DB1 works fine on his computer.

Quote
That being said, I will reiterate what Boingo stated that he wants you to do for his wad. Build your map in Doom. That means if you're going to start a new map, you should do it in Doom (Probably Ultimate DooM, because it is the same thing), not legacy nor GZDoom. Now I'm sure if you were already making a map with those ports then that isn't a problem either? (Just a note, although I favor GZDoom, this isn't biased. I'm not sure if he would accept it in legacy, because it would be much harder to convert to GZDoom. (that is Hexen Format.))

There's something bothering me about him accepting maps in Doom format, and I didn't rush to convert my map because of it.

The main issue here is the IWAD. What is going to be used? Chex Quest 3? Doomu.wad (TUCQ's IWAD)? Chex.wad?

The IWAD is especially important because every IWAD has an almost completely unique set of texture names, especially in the Chex2 textures.

I've converted maps from all three IWADs, and to put it in perspective, I had to change almost every single texture and flat to make it work with a different IWAD. It's easier with find and replace mode, but it still took me about an hour per map or more.

So, Boingo needs to decide on an IWAD....

Just based on resources, Chex 3 a lot of sprites and patches exclusive to that game. It's not impossible to import them, but it wouldn't be easy, there's about 70 new patches, and probably a hundred new sprites. Boingo might not want all of them. Also, Chex3.wad only works with zdoom/GzDoom.

Another problem with chex3 is that some of its actor definitions are poorly coded. This makes assigning GLDEFS a nightmare (I took care of that, though, so Boingo doesn't have to mess around with that), sometimes you have to assign them to both the doom actor and the chex actor.
I'd like to see a better IWAD for chex, honestly.

I'm tempted to work on one, maybe I'll start a topic on the zdoom forums.

Anyway... moving on

BOTH Chex3 and doomu.wad have all of the E1 and E2 textures defined in a way so they don't conflict. Chex.wad doesn't have the E2 textures, which pretty much eliminates chex.wad as an IWAD.

The problem with Boingo's doomu.wad, though, is that it thinks it's ultimate doom. When he switches to GzDoom, that IWAD will screw things up, and assign dynamic lights to things that don't need them (like the slime fountain) and make other bad things happen.

That could be remedied by getting zdoom to accept Bonigo's IWAD as a separate IWAD. It's worth a try, I guess. It wouldn't be too hard to reprogram the actors for zdoom. If it's an IWAD, it's as simple as adding them to zdoom.pk3


Either Doomu.wad or chex3.wad would work fine for TUCQ. As long as Boingo knows what he needs to do, he'll avoid having to redo huge parts of his code and/or renaming a ton of textures.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 10:34:09 PM by 75 »
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Offline Replica

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Re: Map ideas/suggestions/submissions
« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2011, 11:00:57 PM »
Since 75's specialty is GZDoom, I'm sure Boingo thrust away his map because it isn't Doom.
not true. He didn't tell me to switch to legacy when I showed it to him. He just told me to wait a bit.

That was a mistake, actually. I meant this: "Since 75's specialty is GZDoom, I'm sure Boingo isn't going to thrust away his map because it isn't Doom."  :D

About the Iwad, I am most certain that Boingo will continue to use Doomu. If you open TUCQ's wad, you'll find out why. During Boingo's beta phase, he had renamed all the textures to better names, rather then doom ones. He had also added the sprites renamed, and all that from CQ2. To be honest, I'm not sure if he would consider adding CQ3 to TUCQ, becuase he had already made his Flemoid designs and the story. I suggest for now to do what we did before CQ3 came out; use doomu as the iwad and then use added graphics in DB2 from the beta wad. This is of course just a educated guess, and I don't know for sure if he is still doing it that way.
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Offline Atariangamer

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Re: Map ideas/suggestions/submissions
« Reply #37 on: February 04, 2011, 12:32:17 AM »
Weird. All I wanted was the configuration so I could get the object defs. Since Legacy was packaged with it, thats what I wanted (not to mention Legacy being very close to regular vanilla Doom...its Boom with a few extra things that I rarely use anyway).

Also, I'm operating under the status of the project back when it was last touched: Phase 2, Beta 3. I'm running all my test stuff just like that, Legacy 1.44. Currently, however, I could swap my current test map to GZDooM in seconds, as it uses only a few 3d floors.

Not to mention...the game has changed. Legacy 1.44 has built in Chex compatibility, none of this dehacked stuff. Boingo's dehacked is still needed to make his mod work, but you can now plug chex.wad in with no problems, and full action (just like GZDooM).


and FURTHERMORE: This is Boingo's project. We aren't to dictate rules, make assumptions on his words, or anything like that. He said Regular Doom. Forget future plans that we have no final ideas, only hints based on words that are of thoughts that may change rapidly. In fact, sourceports shouldn't be the focus of this topic. Put those in another topic. Lets get this back on track to Boingos request of Regular Doom maps. I don't care (and neither does Boingo, probably) how you get those maps made, but regular doom is the match...

sorry for sparking the flamewar <_>
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Offline The Green Avenger

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Re: Map ideas/suggestions/submissions
« Reply #38 on: February 04, 2011, 10:21:11 AM »
Look, it's all good as far as I'm concerned.  That said however, there's something I want to point out just for kicks and giggles, just because it was so amazingly false on so many points.  See:

Want to know the funny thing about all this? You're all wrong. (Well, 75 got the GZDoom right....)

Actually, although I am switching to GZDooM eventually, for the time being I would like to suggest working on levels that work for regular DooM.  They can be switched over later.  Also, follow the KISS rule for now.

All well and good, until you note:

Since I am going to relearning what I forgot, I am going to be going back to Legacy for now until I get used to editing again.  When I get more comfortable with editing again I may try to make the switch to GZDooM again.  Only time will tell.

Boingo never said Legacy...

See above, eighteenth word...

And finally:

Want to know the funny thing about all this? You're all wrong...
...Boingo never said Legacy, he said Regular DooM.

Funny thing; I would have been right even if he hadn't said Legacy.  Note:

Boingo is sticking with Legacy (Proven above), and has requested maps to be more or less compatible with Vanilla DooM (aka, Regular DooM).  Legacy generally lends itself better to more basic modification, so I'm sticking with that for the time being.

So yeah, someone was right...  Amazing, was that me?
« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 10:35:01 AM by The Green Avenger »
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Offline 75

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Re: Map ideas/suggestions/submissions
« Reply #39 on: February 04, 2011, 03:41:40 PM »
Boingo said he's going to start with legacy, he never said he's going to stay with legacy, and he's said many times he's going to switch to GzDoom, although not publicly. This post is my final warning to everyone who thinks they should start making Legacy maps for TUCQ.

Quote from: atariangamer
Forget future plans that we have no final ideas, only hints based on words that are of thoughts that may change rapidly.

Just to make it clear, he told me about his desire to switch to GzDoom seveal times over the course of a couple weeks. He didn't just mention it in passing.

Now... (not to Atari in particular) If you or anyone else have heard Boingo say he has no intention of switching to GzDoom, more recently than Jaunuary 27th, 2011, aside from the vague things he posted in this topic, please make it known now. Otherwise, it's just a matter of whether you believe me or not. I'm not debating this based on what he said or did five years ago, or what he might or might not feel about a given engine, based on what he said or did five years ago.
He said to me that he plans on switching to GZDoom.


If you fail to see the sense in that, there's not much I can do. Go ahead and make maps for legacy. I hope you don't mind converting them.

I'm going to keep developing for GzDoom unless he tells me otherwise.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 03:53:45 PM by 75 »
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Offline The Green Avenger

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Re: Map ideas/suggestions/submissions
« Reply #40 on: February 04, 2011, 03:55:09 PM »
I think we've made it quite clear; we plan to map for Legacy, not because we think it is staying in Legacy, but because it's easier to make Vanilla Doom maps for Legacy.  End discussion.
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Offline 75

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Re: Map ideas/suggestions/submissions
« Reply #41 on: February 04, 2011, 04:17:36 PM »
I think we've made it quite clear; we plan to map for Legacy, not because we think it is staying in Legacy, but because it's easier to make Vanilla Doom maps for Legacy. 

You made it clear now, at least.  :facepalm

As long as everyone knows what he told me, and doesn't try to make it seem like he didn't say it.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 04:24:39 PM by 75 »
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Offline ChexCommander

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Re: Map ideas/suggestions/submissions
« Reply #42 on: February 04, 2011, 06:18:49 PM »
Done, guys?

Good. I thought so. Now back to working with regular DooM and not arguing over the engine for Boingo's mod.
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Online Boingo the Clown

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Re: Map ideas/suggestions/submissions
« Reply #43 on: February 04, 2011, 11:08:56 PM »
Okay I changed the rule.  Everyone can use whatever port they are most comfortable with.

You can stop arguing now.

Offline 75

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Re: Map ideas/suggestions/submissions
« Reply #44 on: February 05, 2011, 04:04:18 PM »
A note about the IWAD : Boingo said yesterday that map submissions should use doomu.wad from TUCQ as their IWAD, along with resources from P2B3.wad


@Boingo- Perhaps you should split or delete this topic and make a new one?
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