Author Topic: Need massive texture help  (Read 2253 times)

Offline Atariangamer

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Need massive texture help
« on: March 11, 2012, 07:55:47 PM »
Never thought I'd be here again...

So, I'm trying to get some ideas together, but I've got little desire to do things the 'easy way', as it were...

Fed up with the misnamed patches, flats, and textures, I set out a few days ago to organize and categorize these things a bit more nicely, while still making it easy for someone to add new/other textures and patches and make things easily accessible.

So after about 18 hours total work, all CQ related flats and patches (CQ3 included) are somewhat organized. They are in groups by similar characteristics, but quite unlike anything seen in CQ before.

Now, with all this renaming and stuff comes the breaking of textures, but I'm not wanting to do exact replications of the normal textures (mostly because they were designed with only certian levels and designs in mind). I'm wanting to rebuild most of the textures into a good, decent set of general purpose textures.

The problem? My focus got shot on the patches (nearly 450 items that needed naming, numbering, and then organizing). I need someone who can help organize that stuff into textures.


There is a catch, though...Boom compatibility. The type of project I have in mind will run on a very basic 'modern' source port. I'm not thinking about Dehacked, DECORATE, Fragglescript, ACS, or what have you right now. Currently this will be just a resource based wad, with the levels to fill in later.

That said, we have PATCHNAMES, TEXTURE1, ANIMATED, and SWITCHES lumps to work with. Due to the renaming of everything, we're going to NEED the ANIMATED and SWITCHES lumps, but I am clueless as to making these things work. Thankfully? PATCHNAMES is done, and TEXTURE1 is created. Xbolt or replica or someone told me that TEXTURE2 was for the registered DooM, while TEXTURE1 contained all the Ep2/Ep3 textures. Since we don't have to worry about this, TEXTURE1 will suffice.

ANIMATED will be needed for the slime and water flats, and for the slimefalls and teleporter walls.
SWITCHES will be needed for almost all the switches, as again, they've been renamed.

Its pretty extensive, I know. But If you think you can help (or know an easy way to get this stuff together), please respond here, PM me, or let me know, somehow.
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Need massive texture help
« on: March 11, 2012, 07:55:47 PM »

Offline 75

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Re: Need massive texture help
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2012, 08:57:23 PM »
This is definitely a good idea, if you can finish this I hope that you can submit this as a new IWAD for Chex Quest to zDoom, because it would make modding much easier, especially for new modders.

I also agree with the idea of fixing the "one time use" textures. This is very common in Chex. I would also like to request more textures that don't require a 64 or 128 length wall.

The current Chex textures tend to encourage square rooms, and uniform sector heights. It's a non-trivial challenge to make a map look good with odd angles and curves (that isn't rocky); a problem that Doom does not have because its textures don't have some sort of border every 128 or 64 px.

I have no experience with Boom, but I can demonstrate how to make Textures in texture1 if necessary. I don't have the time to do it myself, though.
"Give us those nice bright colors, give us the greens of summer, makes you think all the world's a sunny day."

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Offline Atariangamer

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Re: Need massive texture help
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2012, 09:43:06 PM »
Well, as I was actually planning on this thing being more of a general "base".

It would have most if not all CQ 1, 2, and 3 textures, replacement of all the base Doom enemies, the best sounds we have, the best weapons we have, and the current selection of "approved" music we have.
We'd also have menu and hud graphics with basic doom compatibility (again, for portability amongst engines), and all the decor we have.

I've got a few level ideas and long term game ideas, and I've got a port or two in mind, but due to my limited knowledge, I'm leaning towards vanilla compatibility, but due to the technical necessities of this project: Boom is best.


But that's for another topic: this is mainly just me needing help with some more organization, and reconstructing textures. I don't really have time (or patience) for it either, especially seeing how long it took me to do patches and flats, and how worn out I am after that.
But the IWAD part: yes, that was in the plan all along. Making this an IWAD resource.

So yes, anyone with the patience and focus to do mass texture re-creation (A CHANCE TO CHANGE CQ MODDING IN ITS TRACKS), let me know.


Oh, and I will admit: some of my classifications and organizations as they are right now might not make sense and/or be useful. But its not so much patch organization as it is Texture organization that will help.
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Offline MajorSlime

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Re: Need massive texture help
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2012, 10:06:59 PM »
Ooh! I request textures that can work on the walls of staircases better :P
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Offline Atariangamer

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Re: Need massive texture help
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2012, 10:29:18 PM »
T_T

I'm not making textures!

I'm wanting someone to help me rebuild the existing CQ texture library using a more organized patch set, in turn creating a more organized texture set.

no new content is being created ATM.
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Offline MajorSlime

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Re: Need massive texture help
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2012, 11:22:06 PM »
oh, alright. Just wanted to toss it out there though, I really want some of those XD
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Offline Atariangamer

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Re: Need massive texture help
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2012, 06:07:31 PM »
Great, I was trying to use SLADE to get more information to post up here, but now it won't open anything without crashing...I hope it didn't corrupt my WADs.


But the basic structure I had developed was this:

XXXX##(_#)

The first part is a 4 character sequence describing the patch. Examples, DOOR for doors, MTAL for metals, SEWR for the sewer things, and DCAL for decal patches like paintings, signs, etc.

The next two numbers, starting at 01 and going up, is the number of the patch inside the class. No particular order, just serves for allowing you to browse through them easily.

The next part is optional, used for long textures that are broken into a few patches. For example, one of the doors is a 256 long door, broken into a left and right side. The last one would be called:
DOOR03_2
As its the 2nd part. 3 part textures would use an underscore-3 as the last.

Another case, animated textures, needed something a little extra. The 8 character naming limitation kinda wrecks the earlier stuff, especially if the animation comes after 10. For this reason, animated patches are to be put early on.
It gets named like this
XXXX#_A#   (ex. WATR1_A4)

Again, 4 letter class, the patch number, and then the A# denotes an animation frame instead of a texture part, and then the frame number comes last.

I had a list of the classes I had made, but forgot to save it, sadly. I was going to remake the list, but SLADE won't work now.



For Doom compatibility (and just for a basic base), The Communus, Bipedicus, BWA, Cycloptis, Super Cycloptis, Flem Mine, Maximus, Snotfolus, and Flembomination will replace the Former Human, Former Sergeant, Imp, Demon, Cacodemon, Lost Soul, Baron, Cyberdemon, and Spider Mastermind.

I'll also include the sprites for the Flembrane, Quadrumpus, Larva, and Stridicus for use with Decorate or Dehacked, along with their various sounds.

The music will be weird to 'standardize', but all official CQ music will be mapped to their respective levels to start with, and the rest will be filled with various tunes by Strife. The level designer can then use scripting to get the music he desires into his level.

Another thing that will be hard to standardize is the intermission screens. I may just try and get some simple type background (ala Doom II) to use, and again, the mod maker can replace this with whatever he likes.

The HUD I would like to modify back to use an Ammo counter, and might use Strife's as a base (his was the grey and red, right?) I'll have to see about that. This can, again, be modified either via graphics replacement or ... whatever ZDoom uses for HUD scripting now... XD

The Title screen might do the same as the intermission. I'll create/find a good generic Chex Quest logo and make a nice background for it, and let the modder make his own replacement for it.

The Main logo will be the basic Chex Quest logo from the original game, and I'll include both ZDoom and other port compatible menu graphics.

Sounds will be...sounds. Can't do much else to them. I'll make sure the, as I said before, the sounds needed for the extra flemoids will be included, and that the new ones for the Doom replacements get the correct sounds.

The Sprites/Objects...I'm going to replace as much as Doom will let me. Just the standardized ones, though, not the extremely decorative or one time use objects. I might put the extra sprites in an external WAD or zip, again, for use by modders.




NOW. If I can get SLADE working again, I'll just try and do the textures myself...but the number one thing we'll need at the end of the day is a Doom Builder 2 configuration, mostly for the objects, but also for the texture browser (which can use a more organized format, right?)

But I'd also like it to be portable/ported to all engines, not just the UDMF or the ZDoom variants. Else it would kill the reason I'm trying to keep it Boom compatible.
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Offline MajorSlime

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Re: Need massive texture help
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2012, 06:30:10 PM »
Ooooh!

75 knows a lot about Doom Builder 2 configs. 75?
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Offline Atariangamer

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Re: Need massive texture help
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2012, 10:05:44 PM »
Okay, yeah, I just decided to get with Xbolt and we're going through the textures, one by one...

VERY LONG PROCESS =_=

But we'll get it done.

So far, the texture classes are:

YLLO
DOOR
ROCK
CABS
BRWN
MTAL
BRCK
COMP
TRAK
CONC
TELE

More to come!
And maybe I can post a screen cast or something that shows kind of how its all laid out.
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Offline 75

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Re: Need massive texture help
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2012, 11:00:24 PM »
Great, I was trying to use SLADE to get more information to post up here, but now it won't open anything without crashing...I hope it didn't corrupt my WADs.

I'm not sure if you did this areadly, but you need to install the Visual C++ 2010 runtimes in order to use Slade 3.
Quote
The HUD I would like to modify back to use an Ammo counter, and might use Strife's as a base (his was the grey and red, right?) I'll have to see about that. This can, again, be modified either via graphics replacement or ... whatever ZDoom uses for HUD scripting now... XD

zDoom uses SBARINFO to make new huds

Strife's HUD was grey and purple, I recolored it to red and gray for my mod. The letters were by Arch129.

Doombuilder Config: You can put all of your new things in a Chex_Things.ctf and made some game configs that include it (YourMod_InHexenFormat, YourMod_InDoomFormat, etc...)

Do the DB Config last. After you are certain that you will not be adding or subtracting things from the game.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 11:02:44 PM by 75 »
"Give us those nice bright colors, give us the greens of summer, makes you think all the world's a sunny day."

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Offline Atariangamer

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Re: Need massive texture help
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2012, 12:07:30 AM »
Slade is working now. No idea what made it work.
I've got VisualStudio 2010 on here, I've got the runtimes for sure.


About the hud, maybe I'll just keep it at the Blue, and just edit it. IDK, I'll wait till everything else is into place.


And I was planning on doing the config last, but the problem is I don't know how to make them. Last time I looked, it was WAY more complex than DB1 (which I could just barely manage)
Unless...there's a config maker program that nobody has told me about T_T;


~

I've got maybe about 30 textures done so far. I cannot wait till I get these things finished. I will be so happy...
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Offline 75

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Re: Need massive texture help
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2012, 07:39:28 PM »
Don't do the config first, it's a hard process, especially if you haven't made one before. There is no program to do it, just follow the template given in other things, such as mine.

Doombuilder has some error messages, but sometimes it just mysteriously doesn't work, for example there is a category of things even in my current DB config that I can't remove, and I have no idea how it even got there.

Do not make a DB config until you are 100% done with adding ALL actors to your game, because the time it takes to do one edit and debug it is almost as much as making it the first time from the beginning. I made two, trust me on this.
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Offline Atariangamer

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Re: Need massive texture help
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2012, 08:26:26 PM »
You're still misunderstanding me.

I'm just bringing it up now, because I don't know how to do it.

I'm probably about 15% done with the whole thing. Once I hit...20 or 25%, it will take off VERY fast. At about 90%, I can do a pre-release or something.

Once I get the main WAD at 100%, I'm probably going to pass the CFG development to someone who both knows the port and the content, as well as knowledge of CFG making.

I'm not talking about making one now. Just giving a forewarning, or trying to get information on how to do so.






I'm about to make a new topic as well, since my original desire for 'texture help' never came. I'm doing them myself now, and Xbolt is going to do a general once over and clean up on them when I finish.
Actually, I'll make the new topic now.
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Offline 75

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Re: Need massive texture help
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2012, 07:11:59 PM »
I misread "last" for "first", sorry about that.
"Give us those nice bright colors, give us the greens of summer, makes you think all the world's a sunny day."

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