Author Topic: Chex Quest Standardization Project (working title)  (Read 6046 times)

Offline Atariangamer

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Chex Quest Standardization Project (working title)
« on: March 13, 2012, 09:11:18 PM »
Chex Quest Standardization Project

This project's goals changed slightly when I restarted it in December, 2012. The original post is in the spoiler:

Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.

With that out of the way, I've got a slightly different idea of what I want to do now, not really the same direction as before.

Stay tuned to this topic for a better outline, and ignore anything from this point till December 2012! EVERYTHING CHANGES...
« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 01:29:58 AM by Atariangamer »
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Chex Quest Standardization Project (working title)
« on: March 13, 2012, 09:11:18 PM »

Offline Nomekop

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Re: Chex Quest Standardization Project (working title)
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2012, 10:16:36 PM »
Ah, neat. I was thinking of doing something similar, but I never got around to it, due the  the fact that I have nothing to show, work wise. However, I notice that there are no maps in the IWAD, as you stated. Boom happens to support Dehacked (as well as its extension, BEX), so why not recreate the Flemoids using this, and convert the levels in order it make it possible to have the IWAD be standalone. Most of the ZDoom specific features in the Chex Quest 3 maps are not totally necessary for the map to be playable, such as the slopes in the third episode. However, other features, such as in the arboretum in the first episode, might be harder to convert. But, then again, if your porting the maps to legacy, this won't be much of a problem, now will it? Sorry to cause you any trouble. Meep.

Offline Atariangamer

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Re: Chex Quest Standardization Project (working title)
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2012, 10:50:11 PM »
The reason there are no maps in the IWAD part is because this is designed to be a modding tool. Its not a recreation of Chex Quest 3. If you want to play the CQ Episodes, grab CQ3 and play it!

The Plug-In WADs will contain the DeHackEd (and if I can learn it and see what fully supports it, BEX) patches to make it work in the other ports well enough, and the DECORATE for the Z-ports.

The only maps that might come with the project will be an example WAD or two that I'm planning on throwing together. It'll all make sense in the end.
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Offline Nomekop

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Re: Chex Quest Standardization Project (working title)
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2012, 05:35:59 PM »
Oh, okay.

Perhaps there should be some compatibility with Doom wads, such as Mock 2... except that is a horrible example and I should shoot myself for thinking about it. Plutonia 2 is much better for an example.

Offline MajorSlime

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Re: Chex Quest Standardization Project (working title)
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2012, 06:41:44 PM »
Seeing how this is a modding utility set, why not set some basic WAD organization guidelines as well? Perhaps something like textures, sounds, and other resources go in one WAD, and maps go in another (for a mod). Name em something like CQS_ModName_Resources, and CQS_ModName_Maps, or something like that. IDK.
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Offline 75

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Re: Chex Quest Standardization Project (working title)
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2012, 07:10:59 PM »
Remember that not only modders will be playing this, it's not a bad idea to release wads with only one resource, but I recommend having a 1-file IWAD as well so that it's easy for people to download the entire package if they need it.

Also, this won't be compatible with Doom wads because none of the doom textures match the naming convention, or even logically represent the patches (e.g., BLOODX - there is no blood in Chex Quest)
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Offline Nomekop

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Re: Chex Quest Standardization Project (working title)
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2012, 10:43:23 PM »
Unless you consider milk to be the lifeblood of cereal as its not really good without it and I'm getting off topic.

Still, I feel that there isn't really a good way to play doom maps online using Chex Quest without having either a major lack of textures (as is the case of TNCQG2IWAD) or have them mismatched. ( in the case of EVERYTHING ELSE.)

But, I do understand that Chex quest wasn't meant to be used with doom pwads, and the only thing this would do is add compatibility with doom pwads.

Offline Atariangamer

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Re: Chex Quest Standardization Project (working title)
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2012, 11:08:19 PM »
Yeah, the intent is that this is a Chex Quest resource designed for making modding easier, and letting people play it easier. With chex3.wad, this got easier. All possible resources were in one place, making it easy to modify with all available things.

This is going to take it a step further, in the modder's direction. I'm doing it pretty KISS, but its also very intricate. Its just designed to be laid out more simply and efficiently than the earlier things. That said, it'll take some getting used to. Again, I'm trying to make it more intuitive, but my intuitive and other people's intuitive is VERY different.

We're nearing the end of the textures, and getting to the point I need to be working on sprites. This is where it will get less intuitive for a moment.
To do the Boom compatibility, the only accessible items will be mapped to Doom items. The extra sprites will be named better (and documented for use with DECORATE/DEHACKED), but not included in any official release till RII.

In a future release (maybe even ending up with Port specific IWADs), all sprites will be reorganized in the same 'intuitive' pattern.

Also, with the end of the texture creation and early spriting, I'll do a screen cast video on it. K?


@nomekop: I MIGHT do that a bit later. That would require massive texture reworking within Doom II's standards, which is not really a standard at all.
Not to mention the fact that texture creation is my absolute LEAST favorite (and slowest) part of this project, and it'll be even moreso in that because I'm working with patches that aren't anything like what we need, and would need custom patches to be made for some parts...just a hard thing overall
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Offline MajorSlime

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Re: Chex Quest Standardization Project (working title)
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2012, 01:06:08 AM »
I think what nomekop is confused about is that he thinks this is a project to create a Doom compatible CQ wad, to be used as a replacement doom2.wad or something like that (this may not be it at all, in that case correct me :P)

Anyways, since this is basically a project to create a centralized base for modders, if other people made some basic textures, would you put them in?
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Offline Atariangamer

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Re: Chex Quest Standardization Project (working title)
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2012, 03:32:49 AM »
@CM: not at the start, but definitely somewhere.

Once everything official has been standardized and the base effectively locked, I'm going to document what I used for my standards. I've also got some ideas on how to add to the project easily without messing it up, but we'll just need to get together and decide that.
I also have a bad feeling what I feel is organized or sensical will NOT be viewed as such when it goes public.

A good example is the way I handled the naming of animated patches/textures.
4 letter prefix, 1 number index, underscore, 'A', then frame number.

The problem? there's so many textures per class (the prefix) that most textures are going to have dual number indexes. yet I've only really allowed for, at max, 10 (0-9). I dodged the bullet for the original material by just keeping them in the low numbers, but for modders, this isn't always an option.

A solution that came to me was to let ****## be normal textures, and reusing the same numbers just with the anim.frame tag on the back.

I'll write this down as a good solution (honestly, it is a good idea) but its one I haven't fully utilized myself. Its just a *little* hacky, and some people might not like it. The base IWAD and its content will be easily usable/findable. But modders will be mixing their stuff right into it all.

Another solution? texture subsets. Each modder puts his own subset of textures in there.
This is what Chuck did when doing CQ3's textures. He called all the patches and textures with a 'CJ' at the front of it. This has one or two effects, and I've yet to decide whether they're good, bad, or indifferent.
1. The modder is the only one going to be using these special textures. As long as he can find them and utilize them, its all good.
-. This really is a good point. Chuck wasn't probably thinking with those that came after him in mind when he drew up the textures. He knew what each part worked for what, and did it. Some modders might like this, but if the mod is community or has a large amount of textures/content, this won't work very well...

That's really it, actually. And who knows, that might be what needs to happen. Here's another issue:  (EDIT: Actually, this isn't much of an issue the more I think about it...)
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IDK. We're about 50 textures or so away from that being finished. Xbolt is going to do some quality control on the textures, comparing them to some of the updates the textures have gotten in the fan community over the years, and he'll do a once-over to make sure all falls into place, and he will organize the base textures themselves. While he's on that, I'll be working on sprites. When the texture work is fully finished, I'll apply the sprites section, import the graphics and sound, then work on making it standalone.
I'll include a single test map, very short, vanilla, just to show things work.

Then my plan is to get a small mapset for each port (currently in focus: Boom-compatible, Z-ports, Legacy), and have each show some features of the ports, and the project.
The second step of this is to use the experience gained in making the maps for detailing the wad 'standards', then handing this off to someone like 75, and have him make a map or two (with more advanced modification) just to verify it all works as planned.

Then! I'll do one last sweep of documentation and its out.
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Offline 75

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Re: Chex Quest Standardization Project (working title)
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2012, 07:28:57 PM »
When this project gets closer to being finished, send me a PM and I'll make maps for you if I have time. Depending on how well it works, it's possible that I will be interested in using this IWAD as a base instead of  Chex3.wad for my mod.
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Offline MajorSlime

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Re: Chex Quest Standardization Project (working title)
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2012, 07:31:32 PM »
Actually, couldn't you use a 3 letter base instead of a four letter one? then you'd have 100 textures per category, and i'm sure that's more than enough. After all, why do you really need a 4 letter base? You can still get a good amount of categories with a 3 letter one.
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Offline Nomekop

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Re: Chex Quest Standardization Project (working title)
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2012, 07:57:14 PM »
Actually, why use just numbers for the different textures? After exceding 00 to 99, you could always go on to say, A1 to ZZ. This is how SRB2 does it for the maps, and I suppose it would be good for a start.

Also, I didn't really think that this would be an iwad for Doom compatibility, I just felt it might be a nice thing for the future, if you decide to implement it.

(( Also, I can't wait until someone makes a boom tc with this. I would be able to play enhanced chex quest on my wii! ))
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 08:06:49 PM by Nomekop »

Offline Atariangamer

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Re: Chex Quest Standardization Project (working title)
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2012, 11:32:00 PM »
@nomekop: Give it time...

@75: I'm hoping it'll work okay. This is just like how I code: all the work in, never compile/test till the last.

@CM: A 3 letter base would be nice...save that I don't know how well it will 'convert'. Also, I can be much more descriptive with 4 letters than 3.

DOOR-DOR
ROCK-RCK
MTAL-MTL
COMM-COM
COMP-CMP
FLEM-FLM

Now, the first 3, kind of self explanitory. The last 3? A bit more abstract...IDK.

Not to mention, I think the max number of textures per category we have so far is like...30. If you need more than 60 custom rock textures...I'd love to know why.

IDK, I think it will work. With this way, you can have 10 animations of unlimited length per class, and 10,000 normal textures per class. We're using at max 2 animations and 50 textures per class. Not to mention you can easily make your own class. *shrug*

We're finishing textures tonight. Stay tuned.
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Offline MajorSlime

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Re: Chex Quest Standardization Project (working title)
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2012, 11:36:08 PM »
Oh, k. That works just fine. For some reason I thought you had only one # per name, so you could have a max of 10 per class XD
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