Author Topic: Buried...alive?  (Read 3949 times)

Offline Danfun64

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Buried...alive?
« on: December 26, 2012, 04:42:43 PM »
I was curious about the status of this mod. It looks dead. Free software fps games are rare. Wholesome fps games are just as rare. Wholesome free software fps games...are even rarer. Has anything happened to this mod since the last update? Anything?!?

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Buried...alive?
« on: December 26, 2012, 04:42:43 PM »

Offline ChexMaster2109

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Re: Buried...alive?
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2012, 06:04:17 PM »
Nothing public. I suppose someone could be working behind the scenes...
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Offline Danfun64

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Re: Buried...alive?
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2012, 08:51:57 PM »
out of curiosity, when and if there is a first release of breakfast trek, what would it be based on compatibility wise? Chex Quest 1? Chex Quest Advanced? Chex Quest 3? Ultimate Doom? Maybe even Doom 2?

I was thinking of making an unofficial mockup wad using (mostly) freedoom resources, with various other things being replaced with placeholders (one color textures, "freedoom-this-sprite-hasn't-been-created-yet" esque sprites, etc.)

It wouldn't be Breakfast Trek (and I don't really want it to be a replacement of sorts, just a temporary measure) , but perhaps such a project could encourage development on the real thing.

Offline chexquestisawful

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Re: Buried...alive?
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2012, 11:50:05 AM »
If someone would like to take over the project, be my guest. I'm totally buried in school and other personal things, and have had no time to work on this. I don't think anyone really wanted to take the time to help out either.
John 3:16
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Offline Danfun64

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Re: Buried...alive?
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2012, 12:18:10 PM »
my first question wasn't answered...

What versions of Chex Quest/Doom will the first release of Breakfast Trek be aiming for compatibility?

Offline ChexMaster2109

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Re: Buried...alive?
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2012, 04:31:54 PM »
um, probably CQ3, as that's the most common.
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Offline Danfun64

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Re: Buried...alive?
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2012, 05:58:17 PM »
most common doesn't necessarily mean the best choice.

I admit, in some ways I am obsessed with Free Software (as in Free Speech, although Free Beer is nice too...) As far as I know, the only source port(s) of Doom that support CQ3 are ZDoom derivatives. (As far as I know), With the exception of Odamex, which is based off an outdated version of ZDoom and thus doesn't support CQ3, ZDoom and its derivatives are NOT under the GPL. It uses a confusing mixture of the DSL, BSD, Build licenses, and FMOD (among other things) which forbids commercial use. Assuming that Breakfast Trek is issued under the BSD, GPL, or a free culture Creative Commons deriv, the creators of the software might want to sell the software on say... the Apple App Store so it can be used on an iWhatever. Ignoring the fact that there is no version of ZDoom (jailbroken or licensed) for an iDevice, those users would be unable to sell it because the engine forbids commercial use. So while the data is "Free", the engine isn't. I would recommend not basing it on CQ3 for this reason, it prevents commercial use of the software. Isn't the purpose of Breakfast Trek to provide more control of the software to the people so that they don't have to worry about copyright restrictions and just do what they want with it (within reason of course, I'm not saying people should be allowed to cheat/hack online...). Basing it on CQ3, which for the moment is bound to recent versions of ZDoom, brings you halfway there, but not enough. Basing it on CQ1, CQAD, Ultimate Doom or Doom 2 allows more flexibility on where and how the software can be used. Besides, basing the software on CQ3 encourages using ZDOOM features, which most but not all computers can graphically handle, especially very old ones.

TL:DR- Don't base it on CQ3, it will prevent the software from truly being Free and Open.

edit: *breathes* Maybe I should take a break from typing (I would LOL right now, but I'm kind of exhausted)
« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 06:00:48 PM by Danfun64 »

Offline ChexMaster2109

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Re: Buried...alive?
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2012, 06:47:15 PM »
Yes, but zDoom is the most commonly used engine, and is fully compatible (as far as I know) with Skulltag/Zandronum. Whether you have truly freeware licensing or not, zDoom provides the most compatibility and ease of use, making it the prime choice. As far as getting the thing to an iDevice, you gotta create a new engine built for the iDevice in order to really run the WAD well anyways, making your point about that null, as it won't actually be using zDoom. (Yes, I know there are ports of various engines to iDevices, but in order to REALLY get good compatibility, it would be much better to simply create a new engine. Although this hasn't been done yet, as far as i know, I really hope it is done sometime)
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John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life!

Give God your life; You won't regret it!

Offline 75

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Re: Buried...alive?
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2012, 07:04:19 PM »
@Danfun, if I recall correctly, you cannot sell any part of the Doom engine, so that rules out most options.

Quote
Yes, but zDoom is the most commonly used engine, and is fully compatible (as far as I know) with Skulltag/Zandronum.

Nope, Zandronum and Skulltag are years behind zDoom, though if a mod is very careful in what DECORATE, ACS, and SBARINFO features it uses, it can be compatible with Zand.

Also, Zandronum and ST have some high level classes (max health and max armor) that cannot possibly be created in zDoom, and are not in zDoom. If you use those classes in your Zandronum mod (e.g., like how I did with Chex Pack), the mod will not launch in zDoom.

In general, it is possible to make a mod that works in both zDoom and Zand/ST, but you will need to plan ahead for this requirement. The zDoom wiki is very good at telling you what Zandronum/Skulltag have that zDoom doesn't have, but it is not good at telling you what zDoom has that Zandronum/Skulltag don't have.

The only way to find that out is to develop your mod on Zandronum the entire time and avoid Zandronum-specific actors and ACS scripts.

Also, it's worth mentioning that the Zandronum codebase is inept at UDMF, though it works there are occasionally very bad glitches related to non-integer vertex coordinates, you should always develop your maps on the most restrictive engine (in this case, Zand).

Quote
As far as getting the thing to an iDevice, you gotta create a new engine built for the iDevice in order to really run the WAD well anyways, making your point about that null,

I've always been confused about this, Apple tells me that the iPhone only supports Objective C, which the Doom source code definitely does not use, however I have seen ports of Doom that did work on the iPhone. My guess is that those ports use a DOS emulator.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 07:07:03 PM by 75 »
"Give us those nice bright colors, give us the greens of summer, makes you think all the world's a sunny day."

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Offline Danfun64

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Re: Buried...alive?
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2012, 10:41:13 PM »
@75: If you really want to know if it uses a DOS emulator, the code for the official Doom Classic is at http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=15906.

One more thing. If under the GPL you can't sell games with the doom engine, then are projects like the game @ https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/doomsday-hellraiser-3d-fps/id370414130?mt=8 illegal? Just curious...

@ChexMaster2109: the use of iDevices was just an example. Regardless, for some reason sticking with ZDoom feels like it's missing the point of being a free content replacement of chex quest. IMO, better choices for portability and (for a lack of a better term) "freeness" would be Chocolate Doom, PrBoom+, and/or Odamex. Although they don't support many advanced features, they would allow the software to run on several platforms and still be "free"
« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 11:48:47 PM by Danfun64 »

Offline ChexMaster2109

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Re: Buried...alive?
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2012, 12:01:14 AM »
I believe 75 just mentioned that the same restrictions apply to all the engines, unless I misread...


Anyways, actually, it sounds like developing for Zandronum should be the better option, for better compatibility (at least, doing it the way 75 suggests).
Shh!  I'm taking a break from reality.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life!

Give God your life; You won't regret it!

Offline TrueDude

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Re: Buried...alive?
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2012, 04:28:28 AM »
As the person who originally started this, can I just chime in I was going for maximum compatibility and was aiming for the original Chex Quest? Also for the fact that it would've had the least needed to be developed for it. But the main reasons were what Danfun64 listed on post 6.

No, I'm not taking the torch back and continuing this though. Don't have the time or the willpower to.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2012, 05:00:06 AM by TrueDude »

Offline 75

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Re: Buried...alive?
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2012, 09:34:54 PM »
My mistake, I forgot exactly what license Doom was released under, it is GPL, and you may sell a game based on that engine or any derivative of it.
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Offline Danfun64

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Re: Buried...alive?
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2012, 03:19:55 PM »
To be accurate, the Doom engine is licensed on both the GPL and the DSL (Doom Source License). Anyone who wants to make a source port can choose between the two. While the GPL allows commercial use, the DSL does not. The GPL forces users to release any new code, while the DSL does not. That explains why ports like ZDaemon are closed source and can get away with it. ZDoom is the main DSL port at this moment, almost all source ports nowadays use the GPL. The reason I recommended those ports was for compatibility and portability.

Offline ChexMaster2109

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Re: Buried...alive?
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2012, 04:12:24 PM »
Which is why portable devices should have their own engine developed for them that still runs with the same features :P
Shh!  I'm taking a break from reality.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life!

Give God your life; You won't regret it!

 


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