Author Topic: The Return of Breakfast Trek!  (Read 8196 times)

Offline MajorSlime

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Re: The Return of Breakfast Trek!
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2014, 12:26:32 AM »
Considering the one time I attempted to use a chex image in the doom palette it completely screwed it up, I would say differently. Who knows though, maybe it was something else I did that caused the issue.


In any case, Truecolor PNG = no need to worry.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 12:29:48 AM by ChexMaster2109 »
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Re: The Return of Breakfast Trek!
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2014, 12:26:32 AM »

Offline 75

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Re: The Return of Breakfast Trek!
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2014, 12:59:44 AM »
And also, (sorry for the double post) Can you make a palette for GIMP to use for CQ sprites? I have a GIMP palette for DooM sprites, so that I can turn real photographs into sprites.

I don't recommend using palettes in GIMP at all, I recommend exporting to png in gimp, then using Slade 3 to convert from png to doom format, then converting back to png to get a well compressed, properly paletted image;

keep in mind what colors are in the doom palette (avoid cyan, purple) and test your drawings often to see how well they convert to indexed 8 bit color by importing into slade and converting frequently, and you should not have any trouble with drawing in the doom palette... that method has brought me a lot of success.

I once put forth the effort into making a doom palette for Photoshop and found it to be a waste of time because a lot of the tools quit working in indexed color and pixel art is generally a lot slower, for me at least.

EDIT: I sincerely apologize for the rude, time wasting reply I made to CM2109 originally, I don't know what I was thinking.

Chex and Doom's palettes are in fact identical (compare PLAYPAL in Doom and Chex), you can actually see some of the effects of this on Chukker's early sketches and his commentary on his website:

http://www.chucktropolis.com/chex/



Quote from: Chukker
This image was one of the first illustrations done before we ever started doing anything in Doom, used to demonstrate how we intended a Doom conversion to look like. Note that the first concepts of the flemoids were not green, but more of a yellower snot color. We later changed to bright green both for aesthetic reasons and also due to the Doom palette limitations.

I'm curious as to why they didn't just do a palette swap on the green row to yellow (it may not have required any COLORMAP editing if they did it carefully) but then again I think the green snot looks great just the way it is.

It's also worth noting that the "pinky demon pink" museum walls are probably the way they are because of Doom as well.

Also remember that truecolor png only works in opengl, all images (except the HUD in windows thanks to direct2D) are restricted to palette colors in software, png or not. While the png file may contain thousands of colors Doom is by nature indexed color and finds the nearest match to colors it doesn't have... sometimes it has a very hard time with that, especially cyan.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 01:40:06 AM by 75 »
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Offline TrueDude

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Re: The Return of Breakfast Trek!
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2014, 01:22:34 AM »
So, back on topic... I'm trying to get Breakfast Trek to a point where it's a functional IWAD, and I need to get new TEXTURES1, TEXTURES2, and PNAMES files in order to do so. I consulted Doomworld about it, and they linked to this helpful document. I'm not really much of a tech guy, and while this may be something I could learn over time, I'd rather move development forward faster than stall with something like this. So, I'm going to need someone to help me get this stuff together. Does anyone on this board know anything about setting up this kind of stuff?

Offline 75

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Re: The Return of Breakfast Trek!
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2014, 01:35:38 AM »
Remember that if your textures don't have the exact same name as the originals, players will see a bunch of texture errors if they were to load the iwad with a mod.

I would actually recommend copy/pasting chex's texture1/texture2 verbatim and replacing the patches. Remember that your texture1/2/pnames lump must have the exact same contents as chex's for compatibility, so it's possible that you could generate your own binary texture lumps, but the binaries would be functionally exactly the same, so nobody would really be able to tell the difference between your version and the original.

That being said, you can make your own texture lumps from scratch in slade, it seems to me like a better option since freedoom's build process is made that way for multiple wads (their doom, doom 2, and deathmatch variants all use the same lumps) whereas breakfast trek would only be one file.

To create a texture lump from scratch just open up a wad without one, and hit the "textures" button in slade, opt to create new (empty). Note that if you need TEXTURE2 all you have to do is copy/paste the auto generated, empty Texture1.

*Very important* Remember that the first texture in TextureX MUST BE A DUMMY TEXTURE. If you try and use the first texture in the list in a map you will get very confusing HOMs. The first index is reserved by the system. You can replace the S3Dummy texture's patch if you desire (*cough easter egg) but please do not remove it!
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Offline MajorSlime

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Re: The Return of Breakfast Trek!
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2014, 06:33:46 AM »
@75: Didn't even come back here in time to catch your reply. But yeah, I went and looked at the palettes afterwards and they are the same. I don't know why I had issues before then... weird.
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Give God your life; You won't regret it!

Offline Boingo the Clown

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Re: The Return of Breakfast Trek!
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2014, 01:51:58 PM »
Sorry to pull things off topic again, but I would like to point out that I used to do almost all of my graphics editing in a program called Paint Shop Pro 3.12.

I still use this program from time to time, even though it is now 20 years old.  I still find it excellent for editing DooM images.

With PSP 3.12 I simply load in a image from DooM (or CQ), then save out a palette (.PAL) file.  If I have a truecolour image or an image using another palette, I can simply tell it to load in the DooM palette file I saved and and it will switch the colours over to the nearest matching colours in the DooM palette.  This usually works well, but can sometimes cause weird effects.

I made this ancient version of PSP available on The Epidermis Emporium years ago, and it is still there.

http://www.doomlegends.com/emporium/tools/tools.html

It is a shareware version, but it does not stop working after the trial period is over.

These days I mostly use GIMP and I was hoping GIMP could do palette changes too.  If not, then I can still use PSP.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 02:06:11 PM by Boingo the Clown »

Offline Awesomedude249

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Re: The Return of Breakfast Trek!
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2014, 08:08:00 PM »
<offtopic>Well I might try to make some hi-res doom sprites, I saw a tutorial on how a few months ago, and I saw that he was using the smudge tool VERY CAREFULLY to make the doom sprites not looking all, oh, how should I say it? Pixely. I might try to do that with CQ and DooM.</offtopic>

TrueDude, when you make your sprites, what do you use InfraView for?
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Offline MajorSlime

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Re: The Return of Breakfast Trek!
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2014, 08:21:47 PM »
Boingo, I actually used to do the exact same thing, except with a program called Pro Motion. I still heavily recommend Pro Motion to anyone who wants to do pixel art. Its very nice for it.
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Give God your life; You won't regret it!

Offline 75

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Re: The Return of Breakfast Trek!
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2014, 09:42:36 PM »
@75: Didn't even come back here in time to catch your reply.

Good, it was pretty dumb, I thought I was being funny but really I was too tired to think I had a good grasp of comedy.

I think we've derailed truedude's topic enough, though...
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Offline Awesomedude249

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Re: The Return of Breakfast Trek!
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2014, 10:37:53 PM »
@CM: Wait, does Pro Motion work on linux? Because GIMP isn't ideal for pixel art.

And if pro motion doesn't work, there is an online pixel art program called Piskel.
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Offline MajorSlime

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Re: The Return of Breakfast Trek!
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2014, 10:51:48 PM »
Unfortunately, I believe Pro Motion is windows only. Its also not free (though there is a trial version which has most of the basic functionality that would be needed for simple pixel art). I can say though, that if your doing a lot of pixel art its worth the money. I found it very nice to use.
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Give God your life; You won't regret it!

Offline Awesomedude249

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Re: The Return of Breakfast Trek!
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2014, 11:38:31 PM »
Well, since I have pretty much no money to spend on software, here is a weapon sprite that I made using GIMP:



Anyone can use it for their own mod or whatever. Just make sure you credit me.
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Offline Awesomedude249

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Re: The Return of Breakfast Trek!
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2014, 11:39:48 PM »
For those of you who can't see it when it's posted with the <img> tags, here's a direct link to the picture:

http://www.chexquest.org/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;pic=412


NOW CAN WE PLEASE GET BACK TO TALKING ABOUT BREAKFAST TREK?
« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 11:41:22 PM by Awesomedude249 »
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Offline 75

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Re: The Return of Breakfast Trek!
« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2014, 01:01:26 AM »
For those of you who can't see it when it's posted with the <img> tags, here's a direct link to the picture:

http://www.chexquest.org/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;pic=412


NOW CAN WE PLEASE GET BACK TO TALKING ABOUT BREAKFAST TREK?

Why not make a graphics topic for that... unless it's a submission to breakfast trek?
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Offline TrueDude

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Re: The Return of Breakfast Trek!
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2014, 02:34:09 AM »
TrueDude, when you make your sprites, what do you use InfraView for?
I just used it for color corrections, but I'll probably find out how to do it in SAI soon enough. Also I use it when I scan things.

 


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