Author Topic: 20th Anniversary Mod 2.0  (Read 8460 times)

Offline Ether Bot

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20th Anniversary Mod 2.0
« on: April 03, 2016, 10:55:52 PM »
I have an important announcement.

So for a while I've been chipping away at the Chex Quest 20th Anniversary mod. Although I personally am happy with the progress I've made and as much as I appreciate the support you guy's have given thus far I've made the decision to scrap the WAD as it currently stands.

Why did I decide to do this? Because the WAD wasn't very good. I made some basic fundamental mistakes in the earlier levels and they effected the decisions I made when making the majority of episode 2. So although I've gotten this far, the project isn't fun to make anymore and there'd be no point in finishing it even if I was having the time of my life. I wanted to make a game that would encapsulate 20 years of the Chex Quest Community (and I still want to do that) but the project I started was worsened by my own lack of skill with the Doom engine.

I've gotten better, and the problem with that is that hindsight crept in and my older levels are just absolutely amateurish. I let my excitement with a new engine get in the way of creating a good testament to this game/fanbase, so with better knowledge of the doom engine I'm going to restart to entire project.

If you gave me any textures, I'll still use them. Several ideas I had for levels will probably still get used. It's still being released on October 31st 2016. The only difference is in my attitude and in the presentation. I shouldn't be making a love letter to Doombuilder.. I should be making a love letter to the community and the people that kept it alive since late 1996. So that's the game that's being released.

Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 02:25:26 AM by Ether Bot »
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20th Anniversary Mod 2.0
« on: April 03, 2016, 10:55:52 PM »

Offline 75

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Re: 20th Anniversary Mod 2.0
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2016, 07:06:07 PM »
While I personally don't have time to contribute, I'd like to offer some friendly advice:

- Plan on contributing at least 2 or 3 maps of your own if you're doing a 5 map project, and have them ready as soon as you can, this is really the only way to generate interest in this project.

- Start out with one, Five Map episode. If you contribute 3 of your own maps, with the goal of a 5 map episode, people will see this as a project that's almost done and will be more likely to help. It also makes it easier to contribute to because your 3 maps have already established a theme.

If you get E1 done in a hurry, that's great! You can always start on E2 after that.

- If you find an artist who's willing to draw sprites for this, you can always add them in later; use the original Chex sprites as placeholders.

- If you don't have art skills, it's perfectly OK to make a mod that doesn't include any new graphics. Another new chex map pack with no new graphics would still be awesome.

- Please don't wait for other people to join in, get started on your own and set your expectations to what you can realistically achieve on your own.

- This isn't as important as the previous points but I suggest that you don't limit yourself by using chex.wad as the IWAD, Chex 3 has been out since 2008 and contains everything chex.wad has, and adds to it.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 07:07:39 PM by 75 »
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Offline ChexMaster2109

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Re: 20th Anniversary Mod 2.0
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2016, 07:14:19 PM »
- Rehash of 75's last point, if your using GZDoom, use chex3.wad, not chex.wad. There's no sense in using state of the art in one end and dinosaur old on the other.

- If you get 3 maps done, I swear I'll start making some custom objects/flemoids/whatever you want. Possibly even a map. If you get that many, and they're HIGH quality, I will sink some quality time into this. If not, then no go.
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Offline Ether Bot

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Re: 20th Anniversary Mod 2.0
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2016, 03:06:57 AM »
Sure I can make 3 maps, maybe not exceptional quality I'd stop working on them pretty quickly if they weren't fun.

Maybe we could make a sort of Final Doom but for Chex Quest? Like various mods compiled into one wad, and than I'll just make some new levels.

I already have a first level-ish map done and part of a second map so finishing the second and making a third shouldn't be that difficult.

I sort of thought Chex 1's wad because it was the game that came out in 1996, but in retrospect a service to the community around the game would be a stronger product, besides there isn't a reason to purposefully limit ourselves.

I have a random technical question also, what exactly is the alpha tag for on 3d sectors? I always just use 255 and it works but I genuinely don't know what it's for or what i'm doing.

And a prompt question about level design, what exactly about chex quest's design makes it feel like CQ? I keep thinking about that and idk if I can figure that out, it's not linear and it isn't open ended. It's not sloppy but I don't think they planned it out either, idk how to decipher it.

Should I post the levels I have? IDK how to do that, like I've been making Chex Quest levels for a while but I don't know how to put them on forum posts.

Thanks for all the advice so far

EDIT:: Also I've been using resources from The Lost Quest in my maps, purely because it has things for each individual flemoid, but idk if that works for source ports aside from ZDoom so advice would be appreciated

EDIT 2:: Also I'm not going to updating any maps for like a week because I'll be on a trip, but I'll be planning ou levels like I already do, just not making any. Also I'll be on this forum but not with any screenshots or anything, just know that the first level is in a vague factory esque setting with conveyor belts. and tbh, i'll probably just make a bunch of that because those are my favorite aesthetic.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 03:36:58 AM by Ether Bot »
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Offline ChexMaster2109

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Re: 20th Anniversary Mod 2.0
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2016, 02:17:16 PM »
Counter-question: What is alpha in terms of color? (If you don't know, look it up) More simply, alpha controls a 3d floor's transparency.

As for source port limitations, the two that we'd be using (GZDoom and possibly Zandronum for multiplayer) are both extensions for ZDoom (Zandronum taking that a step further and technically extending GZDoom). So, anything that works for ZDoom is fine.

As for sharing level stuff, you would just upload it to some trusted hosting site and then share the link here. Trusted.
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Offline 75

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Re: 20th Anniversary Mod 2.0
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2016, 07:35:41 PM »
Sure I can make 3 maps, maybe not exceptional quality I'd stop working on them pretty quickly if they weren't fun.

Quote
I already have a first level-ish map done and part of a second map so finishing the second and making a third shouldn't be that difficult.

Sounds like you're off to a great start, remember to take your time and make something cool so that others can build off of it.

Quote
Maybe we could make a sort of Final Doom but for Chex Quest? Like various mods compiled into one wad, and than I'll just make some new levels.

I'm not sure, again I recommend just starting out with one 5 level episode and moving on from there...

Quote
I have a random technical question also, what exactly is the alpha tag for on 3d sectors? I always just use 255 and it works but I genuinely don't know what it's for or what i'm doing.

It's the translucency of a 3d floor, if you set it to 128 it will be half visible (as in, you can kind of see through it) and if you set alpha to 0, it will be completely invisible.

Quote
And a prompt question about level design, what exactly about chex quest's design makes it feel like CQ? I keep thinking about that and idk if I can figure that out, it's not linear and it isn't open ended. It's not sloppy but I don't think they planned it out either, idk how to decipher it.

I can list a couple things off of the top of my head that I personally associate with the stock Chex maps:

Things I like:
1. Colorful, outdoor areas (Bazoik is orange, E3 has lots of pretty green grass)
2. High tech, well lit, and clean environments, unlike doom, the levels feel "new and clean" even though they're coated in slime
3. Wild, colorful alien environments (e.g., the meteor spaceship)
4. Super Slimey is more fun for me than Nightmare on Doom because there's no hitscan enemies
5. Even though Chex is a cartoony, silly game, the environments are realistically and carefully drawn. Most of the maps feel like real places. I prefer Doom's abstract map style but I like Chex's style too.

Things I'm neutral on:
1. Linear levels
2. Mild backtracking (Chex does not have Romero's "visit the same room from a different height" trick that was really cool, but at least you revisit areas to give you a good sense of 2d space)
3. Limited use of lighting even when things seem like they really should be dark (e.g., some areas in E1M5)

Things I would have liked to see more of on Chex:
1. More height variation and usage of the Doom Engine's features (e.g., moving floors). Some Chex maps could be ported to Wolf3d limitations without changing their layout significantly
2. I wish UV was harder, even on UV Chex 3 is a complete breeze
3. A few mild traps from time to time in the maps would have been cool, e.g., if flemoids teleported in

Quote
Should I post the levels I have? IDK how to do that, like I've been making Chex Quest levels for a while but I don't know how to put them on forum posts.

Dropbox, Google Drive, and there's at least another one that I'm thinking of but I forgot that are good to use.

Some people on the Zandronum forums use SpeedyShare and Mediafire but I've heard that the ads on those websites are really pretty terrible.

Quote
EDIT:: Also I've been using resources from The Lost Quest in my maps, purely because it has things for each individual flemoid, but idk if that works for source ports aside from ZDoom so advice would be appreciated

CQ: TLQ is zDoom only if you use its DECORATE, some of the sky textures in CQ: TLQ that use a lot of cyan colors that aren't in the doom palette only look good in opengl, but they'll work.

Remember that Chex3.wad /requires/ zDoom, that's one downside of not using chex.wad, but IMO you're still better off going with a Zandronum/zDoom/Gzdoom compatible mod and chex3.wad, because chex3.wad adds a lot of really nice textures and sprites.

Quote
EDIT 2:: Also I'm not going to updating any maps for like a week because I'll be on a trip, but I'll be planning ou levels like I already do, just not making any. Also I'll be on this forum but not with any screenshots or anything, just know that the first level is in a vague factory esque setting with conveyor belts. and tbh, i'll probably just make a bunch of that because those are my favorite aesthetic.

Sounds cool, I like the idea of a factory level. Hope you have a good trip.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 07:43:22 PM by 75 »
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Offline Boingo the Clown

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Re: 20th Anniversary Mod 2.0
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2016, 08:00:36 PM »
I still say we should do something with Unity.

Offline Ether Bot

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Re: 20th Anniversary Mod 2.0
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2016, 02:22:14 AM »
IDK if anyone would like to help with this but if someone could make a 32x32 floor texture of blank street pavement and a separate 32x32 floor texture of street pavement with a yellow dash on it that'd be appreciated.

If no one wants to I can figure it out myself but tbh I'm absolutely awful at making even really simple textures.

Also Unity? You can technically do fancier things on it but it'd be a lot more of a hassle to make good looking 3D models of everything. I guess we could just not make any models and just make the levels more intricate using regular CQ assets but then whats the point? idk bigger levels with varying floors and a CQ aesthetic sounds neat I suppose but tbh I also think that a big 20 year anniversary being done with the same engine would be exciting I think, maybe a sort of reboot in unity could be made for the 25th anniversary if anyone's still around by then.

I still think the Final Chex Quest idea is cool still but honestly in retrospect I really think that an original mod is still the way to go. Your also right 75, I think a 5 map episode is a good place to start if we want this to be a real thing.

Also one thing I really don't want to do is try to put like a story in the game. I mean Chex 1 was basically Doom's plot, Chex 2 was just Doom 2's plot, and Chex 3 was Chex 2's plot on a grander scale. I feel like it's missing the point to try and put a cool plot into the game, that's not where CQ's charm lies.

EDIT:::: I keep editing these posts don't I? My reasoning for using Chex.wad is because works on more source ports. Chex3 has more resources but we can always just put resources into our wad.

EDIT 2:::: Also this is more detailed but some kind of sprite that looks like a car? It can have more than one angle if you want to but I'm totally fine with just the back/side of the car A La the spaceship.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 02:36:34 AM by Ether Bot »
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Offline Awesomedude249

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Re: 20th Anniversary Mod 2.0
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2016, 02:33:27 PM »
I have all the time in the world, I'd contribute to this but I can't because Slade editor doesn't work and my brother (who is the only person who knows the admin password to the computer) doesn't want to install DooM Builder.
I can do some graphics though, just tell me what you need and I'll try my best to sprite it.
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Offline 75

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Re: 20th Anniversary Mod 2.0
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2016, 07:07:11 PM »
I still say we should do something with Unity.

It's a cool idea, but I don't think there's enough people here to help out with something like that...

Quote
EDIT:::: I keep editing these posts don't I? My reasoning for using Chex.wad is because works on more source ports.

Quote
Chex3 has more resources but we can always just put resources into our wad.

Honestly, in my opinion, it's not worth it to make a Chex mod on a non-zDoom engine.

Here's the restrictions I know of, in case you don't know what the other formats support.

If you're going for Boom compatibility,

- No ACS, no DECORATE, no high res textures (Chex 3 has one high res flat that I know about)

- You can no longer stop infighting with projectile enemies, you'll have to make sure BWAs (and Super Cyclopti and Quadrumpi if you're doing them) don't ever catch other enemies in their line of sight.

- Don't forget the dehacked patch to change the flemoids from hitscan enemies to melee enemies, and you'll have to do some dehackery to prevent the bipedici from dropping large zorchers and the commoni from dropping minizorch recharges.

- Watch for conflicting patch and texture names, IIRC when Boingo made TUCQ he mentioned that it was hard work merging the Chex 2, and Chex 3 resources into Chex 1...

- The super cycloptis, maximus, and flem mine won't be hard to do if you're careful with your sprites, but if you want the Quadrumpus you'll have to do some minor DeHacked.

- You might want to check that Boom even recognizes chex.wad as an IWAD, if it doesn't you might have to trick it somehow into thinking it's ultimate doom.

- No slopes in maps, no hexen format. The most advanced format you can use is Boom format.

- You're probably going to have to make at least an 8 map episode now because I really doubt that Boom knows to stop and display a screen at the end of E1M5


If you're going for Vanilla Chex.exe compatibility:

All of the restrictions above, plus:

- Lots of Dehacked sprite renaming

- You might run into medusa crashes with the Chex 3 textures? Some chex 3 textures aren't power of two and IIRC vanilla doom doesn't like that (**paging Dr. Boingo to the thread**)

- Don't forget to make sure the new midis in Chex 3 still sound good in .mus format

- Make sure the new sounds are in doom format


Remember, if you're not interested in this coding work, it's perfectly okay to just make zDoom maps,

Again I recommend just starting out with one 5 level episode and moving on from there...

maybe do Boom compatiblity for a future project?
« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 07:09:08 PM by 75 »
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Offline Ether Bot

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Re: 20th Anniversary Mod 2.0
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2016, 08:15:12 PM »
I can do some graphics though, just tell me what you need and I'll try my best to sprite it.

IDK if anyone would like to help with this but if someone could make a 32x32 floor texture of blank street pavement and a separate 32x32 floor texture of street pavement with a yellow dash on it that'd be appreciated.

EDIT 2:::: Also this is more detailed but some kind of sprite that looks like a car? It can have more than one angle if you want to but I'm totally fine with just the back/side of the car A La the spaceship.
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Offline Ether Bot

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Re: 20th Anniversary Mod 2.0
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2016, 08:21:24 PM »
Also I'd like to point out that there hasn't been one single CQ mod with more than 1 episode that the creator finished, so 5 episodes maps is probably a good place to start.

EDIT::: Check this out http://snag.gy/oiC2A.jpg

It's nothing spectacular but it's pretty cool.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2016, 10:07:56 PM by Ether Bot »
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Offline 75

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Re: 20th Anniversary Mod 2.0
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2016, 08:30:32 PM »
Also I'd like to point out that there hasn't been one single CQ mod with more than 1 episode that the creator finished, so 5 episodes is probably a good place to start.

Uh..... I hope that was a typo and you meant 5 levels...

Title looks mspainty but don't worry about that for now.
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Offline Ether Bot

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Re: 20th Anniversary Mod 2.0
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2016, 10:15:35 PM »
Uh..... I hope that was a typo and you meant 5 levels...

Yeah I meant 5 levels lol

Title looks mspainty but don't worry about that for now.

That's not a title-title, it's just to psych myself up for the project.
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Offline Awesomedude249

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Re: 20th Anniversary Mod 2.0
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2016, 12:55:03 PM »
(long thing that I don't want to put here because it's long and unnecessary)

It looks like the same style as the art from The Impossible Quiz. :D

Also, that street pavement texture thing will be pretty easy to make, but the thing is the car. I have seen someone make a car with slopes and 3D floors, maybe you could try to do something like that? I can make a car sprite, just wondering because it would look pretty cool.

EDIT: I finished the street textures, but I haven't done the car yet. Here:
« Last Edit: April 07, 2016, 01:03:13 PM by Awesomedude249 »
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