Author Topic: Server computer build, for web page hosting and Skulltag  (Read 8397 times)

Offline 75

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Server computer build, for web page hosting and Skulltag
« on: September 09, 2011, 12:55:39 AM »
The only thing this will do is run Skulltag servers, and a web page. Instead of buying the "server" parts, I'm going to buy PC parts. Is there a good reason to buy the "server" parts?

OS: FreeBSD

PSU : Antec 400W http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371029

- I guess that my computer will need 200-300, I added a 100 watt error range

Case: Xigmatec mid tower http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811815006

- A smaller case would be better, but I got this one because I can add fans to it.

Motherboard:  GIGABYTE GA-M68MT-S2P AM3 NVIDIA GeForce 7025/nForce 630a chipset Micro ATX AMD  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128469

CPU:    AMD Athlon II X2 250 Regor 3.0GHz Socket AM3 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor ADX250OCGMBOX http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103903

- Cheap, cool, and slow, but is it too slow?

RAM: G.Skill, 1x4 GB http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231307

HD: WD Caviar Green http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136513

- Should I get a caviar black to improve speed?

DVD/CD Drive: ASUS DVD Burner

New Router: D-Link 8 port wireless N:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833127315

CPU cooler: Cooler master http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103087

- It looks like a weak cooler, but the other brands don't look much better.


Total price (with router): $360
« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 01:39:32 AM by 75 »
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Offline Atariangamer

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Re: Server computer build, for web and Skulltag
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2011, 01:23:33 AM »
For a pro opinion, ask BC. She could probably tell you the specs of the servers her company uses for BSD.

IMHO, though, you'd want to go with the server parts if at all possible. Its just the design focused on faster RAM access, and just faster performance over all. You'd also probably want more RAM for if you ever decided to do anything else. As well as a quick SATA hard drive (7200RPM is the best thing to get on a budget. Then try and get Sata 6).

And if you're thinking about overclocking (or even just keeping the thing rather cool), try and aim for a Corsair Hydro cooler. Mine has worked like a champ with even serious loads and 24/7 operation of overclocked and overvolted processor. And, since you aren't worrying so much about air cooling the processor, you don't need as many loud fans to keep the rest of the machine cool. For hydro coolers, the best config is 2 fan push-pull going out on the radiator, one out on top, and one or two ins on the front, near the hard drives, to keep them cool.

If anything, keeping the Proc and HDDs cool is necessary for servers because that's the thing that's going to be constantly accessed. Also, not skimping out on the RAM (getting high speed ones with heat spreaders, which you did).

In all honesty, though...a decent desktop can make a decent server. The thing that'll really end up killing you is internet. bandwidth limitations and speed throttling could be hazardous (but you've been running a server for awhile now, haven't you? no problems?)

Anyway, wait for BCs opinion. Or possibly even CCs.
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Offline 75

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Re: Server computer build, for web and Skulltag
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2011, 01:29:48 AM »
IMHO, though, you'd want to go with the server parts if at all possible. Its just the design focused on faster RAM access, and just faster performance over all. You'd also probably want more RAM for if you ever decided to do anything else. As well as a quick SATA hard drive (7200RPM is the best thing to get on a budget. Then try and get Sata 6).

It would double (or even triple) the price of the rig to get all server parts. I'll look for that hard drive.

Quote
And if you're thinking about overclocking (or even just keeping the thing rather cool), try and aim for a Corsair Hydro cooler. Mine has worked like a champ with even serious loads and 24/7 operation of overclocked and overvolted processor. And, since you aren't worrying so much about air cooling the processor, you don't need as many loud fans to keep the rest of the machine cool. For hydro coolers, the best config is 2 fan push-pull going out on the radiator, one out on top, and one or two ins on the front, near the hard drives, to keep them cool.

I'm not thinking of overclocking, I'm just taking precautions. Watercooled systems start at $75, which is more than I want to spend.


Quote
In all honesty, though...a decent desktop can make a decent server. The thing that'll really end up killing you is internet. bandwidth limitations and speed throttling could be hazardous (but you've been running a server for awhile now, haven't you? no problems?)

Random intense lag spikes, but my network wasn't overloaded, it was due to the CPU maxing out. My networking teacher and I theorize that it's because it was getting a lot of errors over my wifi connection; that should be fixed with a good ethernet connection.

EDIT - I found a 7200 RPM hard drive: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136284

I don't see SATA 6 in the specifications

I agree that the hard drive should be faster, since my servers now are constantly accessing the disk. I have a WD Caviar Green in my main build, and according to Windows 7, it's the slowest part of my system by far, and I have the slow startup times to prove it.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 01:37:08 AM by 75 »
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Offline brain candy

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Re: Server computer build, for web page hosting and Skulltag
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2011, 10:08:07 AM »
75, super sorry I missed your Steam message last night. I was technically at the Mac, but Steam was buried behind windows and windows of guitar tabs. My boyfriend fixed my Fender so I had a 2+ hour guitar session... Anyways, really quick FYI because I'm at work and gotta run. I'll give you a full run-down if I can later today. Hope that works.

For just a web page and a Skulltag server, you don't really need a true server platform, but your focus should be on quality parts that can handle a ton of up-time. Solid capacitors on the motherboard, a hefty and efficient PSU, and a good cooling plan should be priorities.

Also, all your parts are really old. The nForce 6 series chipsets were released in November 2006. AMD owns ATI now... no way they'd put nVidia products on their board. That CPU + Mobo won't get you very far.

Here is an example gamer sort of PC I built recently. Scale back the obvious gamer parts and see what you can find.

Quote
- RAM: Patriot Gamer 2 Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model PGD38G1600ELK
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220558

- GPU: EVGA SuperClocked 01G-P3-1461-KR GeForce GTX 560 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130661


- PSU: CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V v2.2 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139006

- CASE: Antec Three Hundred Illusion Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129066

- HD: Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136533

- ETC: LG DVD±RW SuperMulti Drive Black SATA Model GH22NS50 Bulk - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136216

Basically, everything Atarian said! Especially the bit about your internet. Your internal network and external ISP workings are probably going to be your weakest point.



My work desktop is server-grade... you don't even want to know what our servers are like.  8)

And if you're thinking about overclocking (or even just keeping the thing rather cool), try and aim for a Corsair Hydro cooler. Mine has worked like a champ with even serious loads and 24/7 operation of overclocked and overvolted processor.

And this is a brilliant product, without having to cut up your own aquarium tubes and running it all through your rig. It's a self-contained system, very nice. Highly recommended since they aren't that much more than a crappy air cooler.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 10:18:41 AM by brain candy »

Offline Atariangamer

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Re: Server computer build, for web page hosting and Skulltag
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2011, 01:34:54 PM »
About that hydro...check around bestbuy and other places. They sometimes have Corsairs or similar products (I saw an Antec one recently, which is 10$ less than the H50 on newegg) for cheaper prices.

But they are darn useful, no lie. Just think about it and see if you can afford it.

At least you don't have to get real server parts.
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Offline 75

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Re: Server computer build, for web page hosting and Skulltag
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2011, 04:46:16 PM »
Judging from the feedback on the CPU page, it seems like a good enough processor

Quote
Pros: This processor is a dual cored processor with a very low heat generation, a low power rating, and runs amazingly. You can play games on this with a nice GPU. Pop in a 4850 and play some awesome games. For basic users, it can type documents, browse the internet, do research, all in a fraction of a second =D This cpu is more than you will need for basic computing... much more. If you are looking for super basic(as in all you will do is check email, browse the net, type stuff), then get an AMD Sempron processor. Even lower price, heat, and power, with still a great amount of power.

Cons: Heatsink is very tiny. I changed it out with my Phenom ii x6 1100t heatsink(i got a custom heatsink for tat), and it runs less than 21c! But im sure this heatsink will do fine. It doesnt generate much heat at all.

Other Thoughts: I recommend it. Especially for budget builds. It will play games guys! Dont think it wont! Pop in a good GPU and play away! Of course there are limits(I wouldnt play metro2033 with it), but it will do most with no problem. If your doing extremely basic computing, get the sempron.

This review isn't old, it was written yesterday.

You have a good point about the motherboard, though; the motherboard I picked runs SATA 3, I should get something with SATA 6, which will require a better processor and motherboard

EDIT - Is SATA 6 really that important for servers? I ask this because most of the server motherboards I looked at are still using SATA 3.

« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 05:00:41 PM by 75 »
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Offline Atariangamer

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Re: Server computer build, for web page hosting and Skulltag
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2011, 09:21:03 PM »
Its just faster data transfers. as long as its not 1.5, it should be decent.

However, that processor (I just looked at it...wow). I'd honestly try and get something better, possibly quad.

just because something plays good games doesn't mean it'll handle server stuffs. Not to mention alot of games use more GPU than CPU, so just because it'll 'play games' doesn't mean much.

And what might be a good idea is to let us know what your budget is. If its only 350$ or so, that's not a whole lot to work with for a decent computer that'll actually last for awhile.
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Offline 75

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Re: Server computer build, for web page hosting and Skulltag
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2011, 04:23:18 AM »
I was hoping to get one for $300, but $500 would be my maximum. I'm not yet convinced that this server computer will need a better processor/memory/motherboard to be effective.

It will be running FreeBSD with no GUI, I've read some guides online that said that even a dual core CPU is excessive (also, Brain Candy's server computer uses a (server) dual core computer).

This guide says I only need 64M of RAM, and a 300MHz CPU, it's from 2010. I'm not making something that weak, but why wouldn't my selected parts work?

http://www.webmonkey.com/2010/02/set_up_a_home_server/

Does Skulltag take up significantly more resources, enough to justify buying a computer that is 100x what this article is specifying? (with the parts I specified, it's already 10x)
Is the article trying to make the wrong kind of server (i.e., something weaker than a web server, such as a print or LAN server)?
Is the article just wrong? If so, it's not the only one I've seen that quoted a PC even much less powerful than the one I built.

EDIT - I'd also like this computer to be able to host modern game servers, such as Source, so if they need more CPU power/memory, that would be a good reason to spend more money.

If I decided to get server parts, here is the cheapest setup I can find on Newegg:

The cheapest processor available is $109, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819105277 (AMD Opteron 4122 Lisbon 2.2GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket C32 115W Quad-Core Server Processor OS4122WLU4DGNWOF), it seems like a good processor.

But, the cheapest motherboard that supports it is $220 (Tyan), http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813151251 . 4x what my motherboard costs, and even $80 more than the high end system I built in December, but it's awesome. It supports 64 GB of RAM and it has a dual LAN.

If I decided to spend the extra $220 on these parts, what kind of PSU/case would be best? How much memory should I get, if I were to build this? Does the memory need to be server memory?
« Last Edit: September 10, 2011, 05:00:31 AM by 75 »
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Offline Atariangamer

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Re: Server computer build, for web page hosting and Skulltag
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2011, 03:04:56 PM »
I was about to say that the guide was talking about very basic home server type stuff, and that game servers need quite a bit more resources than that, but you mentioned that.

Yeah, for source gaming, more power is better. However, I haven't seen many guides on running the server on BSD...though I haven't looked too hard.

Looking around, and this might be a good server board:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=13-131-611

Problem being that its particular about its RAM, and likes expensive processors (200$ range).

I could be completely wrong on this, but I think for a server the PSU needs to be pretty spot on because you don't want some monster PSU sucking all your power and driving your bill up. Something that gets the job done, is energy efficient (80 Plus kind of stuff), and as people have told me, is heavy. Heavier power supplies usually mean better quality components inside, so they'll last longer.

And I think if you went with server boards, you need to look at server memory because I saw some lingo floating in that board I posted above's review in relation to memory, and I hadn't heard it before (UDIMM and RDIMM, ECC). So check the specs on the board, see what it supports, and then go looking for that type of memory.

and I think a decent sized case with some good fans would be the best bet, and again...hydro coolers FTW.
but I think with the board and proc you posted, there is no fancy coolers for it...IDK.

One last thing is that some server boards can support desktop processors. That could (possibly) take your price down while still giving you some server type features.
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Re: Server computer build, for web page hosting and Skulltag
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2011, 01:10:18 PM »
I got an Antec 500W Green off Newegg for around $50 and this thing is amazing. It's extremely quiet yet has plenty of power. I can't even hear my PC when it starts up anymore. For a quiet, efficient server, that's my recommendation for a PSU.
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Offline brain candy

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Re: Server computer build, for web page hosting and Skulltag
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2011, 10:18:20 AM »
Okay, responding in chunks here.

---

EDIT - Is SATA 6 really that important for servers? I ask this because most of the server motherboards I looked at are still using SATA 3.

Don't bother spending the extra cash on this unless you're concerned with future proofing your rig or plan on running SSDs or run an SSD + traditional hard drive in Intel's new hybrid mode. The only thing that can take advantage of SATA 6 is the SSD technology. Traditional hard drives are just too slow and will only run at SATA 3 speeds.

---

From what I can see, the best bang for your buck CPUs are:

$80 range - Athlon II X3 455
You can unlock the 4th core here and get yourself a Quad Core.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103911&Tpk=Athlon%20II%20X3%20455

$100 range - Phenom II X4 840
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103921

$120 range - Core i3-2100
Here is where I start getting really confident about the CPUs I'm listing. You can easily get budget LGA 1155-based motherboards below $70
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115078


You really need something that has more than just two cores at the lower-end of AMD's line, or else you're probably going to bottleneck.
---

You do not need hardware that is tagged as being a "server" motherboard or a "server" CPU. Those are for mission critical, heavy load computing. Just build a solid PC and you should be fine for what you're doing. Just make sure you're getting a motherboard from a reputable brand with solid capacitors and a life rating. Don't skimp on the case or power supply either.

« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 10:31:28 AM by brain candy »

Offline Atariangamer

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Re: Server computer build, for web page hosting and Skulltag
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2011, 01:25:42 PM »
Oh, well in that case:

i3 processor, Gigabyte UD3 motherboard, semi-large fast HDD, a nice case, hydro cooler, a decent power supply, and probably a basic graphics card, then alot of fast RAM.

hang on, gathering parts list...

CASE: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129098
-Antec One Hundred MidTower, 55$
+chosen because Antec's cases are quality, and decent airflow (my Three Hundred was similar, but this has alot more expansion abilities)

CORE: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115078
-Intel Core i3-2100 3.1GHz Dual Core, 125$
+chosen because...that's alot of speed and power for 125$...

MOBO: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128520
-GIGABYTE GA-Z68P-DS3, 100$
+chosen due to its Z68 chipset, and the fact that its got all the UD3 type features

RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231428
-G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 1600, 55$
+chosen for speed, price, and guaranteed compatibility with the board of choice

PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139027
-Corsair CX500v2 500W PSU, 60$
+chosen for power, 80 plus, Active PFC, and silent cooling

OPTICAL DISC: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204
-ASUS 24X Superdrive, 21$
+chosen for the fact its a superdrive (full read/burn of everything CD/DVD), sata, and oem (board comes with cables)

HARD DISK: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136283
-WD Caviar Black 750GB, 70$
+chosen for highspeed and capacity for cheap, and oem (board comes with cables)

Total of 485.93$. The shipping is pretty cheap so there's your 500$ build.

Problem being that the only video out from the board is HDMI (which would require either an HDMI screen, or a HDMI to DVI converter), and there's nothing left over for a third party cooler. But I don't think you'll need it, I could run my computer, overclocked, for 24/7 on the stock Intel cooler. Since you'd probably just leave it stock clocks, you shouldn't have a problem if you set the fans to a decent speed (The ones in the case are Antec 3 speeds, one huge fan on top, and one smaller one on the back. at low speeds, they're rather quiet, and still move a good amount of air.)

All in all, that's a darn strong build. the major drain being the motherboard and processor. But that should still give you a ton of power to go on for ages, and the case will support expansion with more hard drives if you wished in the future.

That motherboard, though, could be taken down about 30$ if you didn't want the higher end features of the Z68 chipset (which from what I was reading is actually quite good for people who want performance and control). There's a P67, I believe, and most boards based on that were a bit cheaper. Downside there is that some of them don't utilize the video chip on the processor. Also, the RAM I selected might not work for another board/chipset. But this is just my look at it. I'm not much of an AMD person, never have been, and until they rock it with something, I don't think I will ever be. They're great for tight budgets, but you can get alot more 'bang for your buck' from Intel. These new Sandy Bridge chips are insane. I've got the 2nd Gen i7 moblie processor, and its literally an 8 core beast, unlike the hyperthreading of old. The i3 will act like a quad core without a hitch, especially in the desktop application. And with such a high stock clock, that's awesome. I think its the way to go.

But if anyone wants, pick this apart, and get some other options.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 02:03:48 PM by Atariangamer »
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Offline brain candy

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Re: Server computer build, for web page hosting and Skulltag
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2011, 01:58:14 PM »
If you're going i3, you don't need a dedicated video card. :)

Offline Atariangamer

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Re: Server computer build, for web page hosting and Skulltag
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2011, 02:07:06 PM »
@BC: after going through the parts, I got it XD
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Re: Server computer build, for web page hosting and Skulltag
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2011, 02:34:48 PM »
@BC: after going through the parts, I got it XD

Missed the re-post! The part list looks great. Only thing I can think to do is narrow down how much power he'll actually need and get a 90 Plus in that same range. The i3's don't pull a lot of powere these days and the more efficient we can get this, the better. Also, less wattage, less heat generally.

 


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